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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.18 11:52:00 -
[1]
1. You forgot about larger clip sizes in rocket launchers (unless that change was reverted).
2. How do new FBs work now? Like normal turrets (tracking/sig)? Like missiles (exploV, exploR)? Could you drop their stats here please (just the ones needed for damage).
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Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.18 13:24:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Fade Toblack
Oh yeah, I meant to ask. On the T2 ammo changes the drawbacks are being removed from short-range variants (if I read the blog correctly) - how about the long-range variants?
The short range ammo were the ones which had ship effects on them. The rest affected your turrets themselves rather than the ship. The ship effects were the ones which were removed.
The definitely will make them directly competitive with the faction variants for sure.
These changes are not on sisi yet, a thread will appear in test server feedback forum when they hit there for specific feedback.
When we are at conflagration - can you make it deal, say, more EM damage than EMP ammo? Something similiar to scorch damage profile. Its weird that for EM race (which amarr is) they can be easily outmatched in EM damage type department by minmatar or caldari (obvious).
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Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.21 16:51:00 -
[3]
Small idea Chronotis for t2 ammo:
damage +15-20% over faction ammo (so around 32-34 on Hail M)
50-75% tracking penalty
Here you go - situational, anti "larger target size" ammo. Similiar to missiles Rage/Fury progression (normal -> +15% -> navy -> +15% -> rage/fury).
Otherwise if it remains 1% better than faction but WITH penalties it will still be useless.
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Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 21/10/2010 19:35:46
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
damage +15-20% over faction ammo (so around 32-34 on Hail M)
50-75% tracking penalty
Here you go - situational, anti "larger target size" ammo. Similiar to missiles Rage/Fury progression (normal -> +15% -> navy -> +15% -> rage/fury).
You'd need to add an extra 0 to that damage bonus to make it worthwhile.
Just for the record, a 50% tracking penalty against a 1:1 tracking target means a reduction in DPS of ~85%. A 75% tracking penalty against a similar target means a DPS reduction of roughly 100%.
Which part of "situational" you dont understand? Engaging double webbed (gang fight/rapier/whatever) target is enough to bring tracking back to its respective level. So would be engaging oversized targets (cruiser hulls in frigs, BS hulls in cruisers, caps in battleships). And 20% damage boost means around 200dps boost to most battleships, circa 100-150dps on cruiser/bc hulls and around 40dps on frig hulls. I wouldnt say that its small number.
Quote:
It might work for projectiles and lasers, but certainly not for blaster ammo.
It would work for all guns. Blasters too if pilot is smart enough to use "keep at 2500m" range button and gets enough webs on target (same target) OR engages larger sized targets. Plus afaik it is called "t2 shortrange ammo fix" not "blaster fix". In current version (proposed in blog) it doesnt help either: ammo sucks, blasters stay where they were.
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Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 21/10/2010 19:37:51
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
It would work for all guns. Blasters too if pilot is smart enough to use "keep at 2500m" range button and gets enough webs on target. Plus afaik it is called "t2 shortrange ammo fix" not "blaster fix". In current version (proposed in blog) it doesnt help either: ammo sucks, blasters stay where they were.
The point is, it would work worse for blasters than for anything else, making them fall even farther behind.
And whats the problem to balance it respective to weapons? -50% tracking on blasters, -75% on lasers (just a number from my ass, as i said its just idea not exact numbers)? You are creating problems where they dont exist/where they can be easily balanced between gun types.
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Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:54:00 -
[6]
When you want to create turret ammo that works only against bigger targets you can ONLY use tracking to enforce target selection.
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Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.21 20:24:00 -
[7]
It can be done without touching rof (lag inducing, small ROF numbers are kinda bad) but by giving huge damage + increasing volume. Same effect, same DPS, same reload times. Problems? You still need to decide on effective DPS (including reload time). If it remains same as with other ammo - its kinda pointless. If it gets larger - you run into risk of said ammo being always used instead of navy (aka: obsoleting it).
And idea itself was discussed somewhere around rocket fix (yeh that was one of rocket change ideas). Still, better than current "fix".
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Deva Blackfire
Oblivion Shield
Oblivion United
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Posted - 2010.10.21 21:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 21/10/2010 21:55:49
Originally by: Hasnpbeard
In any situation players deem the ammo to be USEFUL, the ammo WILL BE BETTER than its counterpart.
This is not true. Both navy ammo and rage ammo are used in PvP yet one is not better than the other. They might be better in one situation or another but you can not just say "this one is always better" because it will be a lie. They are just finely balanced against each other.
Similiar situation happens with autocannons - at some ranges there is a tie between barrage/close range ammos. With lazors its kinda different - scorch is always superior till you swap to Xray ranges (i think... forgot which close range ammo has similiar damage to scorch). But difference is kinda obvious: AC ammo has much more to it except range/damage. It also has different damage types and tracking bonuses (for mid-type ammo) which makes most of them useful in one or another case. With blasters/lasers there arent many choices. You will always pick highest damage ammo over distance you engage at - because you cant chose damage types or tracking bonuses (they dont exist).
So if anything both energy and hybrid guns should be moved a bit towards autocannons with better variability between ammo types. otherwise it will always be 2 ammo types: long and short range (with maybe 3rd mid range in some cases). Changing t2 shortrange ammo to "more damage no penalty" will just mean that it will be used over navy ammo. Changing towards "similiar damage plus penalties" will mean it will be still useless. There needs to be something more than plain damage vs range.
And my "theorycrafting" is easily shown via practise. If you fly say raven or drake in PvP you carry quite a few ammo types. Usually CN of each flavour + kinetic rages (i actually carry CN + rage of each type, at least 2-3 reloads of each). With minnie ships its similiar. You carry 3 shortrange ammos + barrage. Sometimes mid range ammo (especially in large/medium guns as small track well enough). With amarr? Scorch and multi. With gallente? Null + antimatter (i carry only AM tho, i dont even bother with null). More variety = better.
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